Colin graduated Yardale with an average of 4

Topic: Sometimes the voices tell me to change the topic.

Users: @SuzyQ

irc.simpworks.com

[A Spy in Mancunia]

Some thoughts on the character Colin in "The Simpsons Movie":

(South Park discussion to follow. In case you hate South Park, you don't have to read it.)

I'm not the only fan to dislike Colin: for being flawless, Gary Stu-ish, and so forth. And only recently, I had a revelation which explained to me exactly why he's so bad a character.

Colin is basically the same character as Gregory from another feature film based on a cartoon series, "South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut".* Gregory is PC-thuggish/preachy, flawless, overly smart, and totally charms Wendy with his activism. (I guess the main difference is that he charms Wendy away from her old love interest, Stan, whereas there's really no further "away" in the case of Lisa and Milhouse).

The difference is that Gregory, despite being upstanding and brave as the little Gary Stu he is, is *meant* to be unlikable, and we're meant to be happy when Wendy dumps him for Stan in the end. Colin, just like Gregory, is just a bunch of vaguely admirable qualities stuck together with no humanity or flaws for glue, but we're meant to think he's great and the perfect love interest for Lisa.

F*** Colin. F*** him right in the ear.

*Which, incidentally, I found more enjoyable than both "The Simpsons Movie" and "Bender's Big Score", both as a development of the show and as a movie in its own right.

[gkscotty]

Two things.

1) I laugh at "He's not Bono." And will forgive Colin his flaws. I dunno, I just like the line.

2) I liked Gregory...

[Officer 1BDI]

I thought Colin's Gary-Stuism stemmed more from his lack of character development than anything else; to me, he was little more than a living prop in the movie and as 1-dimensional as they came.  I wouldn't mind seeing him in an episode if only to allow him to form some sort of personality.

...And I liked Gregory, too.  >_>

[Lisabella]

Meh, I'm moderately tolerant of Colin - he and Lisa did have a rather cute moment

Spoiler (hover to show)

when the Simpsons are stuck outside of Springfield and he writes the music to the song he wrote on the dome.

He provided some real emotion for Lisa in the movie, at least - and I'll frankly take her whirling about dizzy with a crush than being humorless, as I feared they might choose to portray her after reading spoilers for the movie last year.

He's not perfect (or in this case, he's TOO perfect), but I'd rather Lisa be paired with him than, say, someone it'd be OOC for her to be paired with.

[Don Cobra]

1) I laugh at "He's not Bono." And will forgive Colin his flaws. I dunno, I just like the line.

That was one of the very first moments in the film when I felt like killing myself. I refuse to believe that joke was incidental, and that they didn't make him Irish just to do that, in one of those moments of "We need a joke here! It doesn't matter if it's not funny, we NEED A JOKE".

[Lord Kingsley]

You know, I never really thought of him like that.  Veeerrrryyy eeenterestink!

Since he's just a one-off character, I don't really have an opinion of Colin one way or another.  Though, it'd be possible to bring him back, since he's voiced by Tress.  And I kinda hope they do.  They've wasted so many opportunities by having celebrities voice their characters that they can't bring most of them back. 

[fellranger]

I don't dislike Colin but then again there simply isn't much character there to dislike.   I wouldn't say he's a Stu in the self-insertion sense (unless there was a high-hairlined, Irish Lisa-lover on the writing staff) and while he could be seen as flawless, I think it's a result of a lack of any character development as much as anything else.   If they're guilty of anything it's introducing a new character knowing damn well they wouldn't have time to make him anything more than one-dimensional.   OK, he didn't exactly drive the plot along but the Lisa/Colin thing helped to emphasise the emotional connection between OFF and those left inside the dome.   I will concede that his prime function was to get some cute responses from Lisa...and I'm afraid I can't complain...
And yeah, I suspect they did make him Irish so they could do the Bono joke....
Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing him in the show again if they added a bit of depth, I could make more of a judgement then.   

[A Spy in Mancunia]

Actually, I quite liked Gregory too. He had a lot of good qualities, and I really respected him when he volunteered for the rescue mission. I still couldn't feel sorry for him when Wendy gave him the put-down in the end. He was just a know-it-all.

I wouldn't say he's a Stu in the self-insertion sense (unless there was a high-hairlined, Irish Lisa-lover on the writing staff)

True. I meant that more in the "perfect flawless character" sense rather than the original sense.

Lots of interesting points here. I really didn't like him, though, what little there was to like or dislike. He was just bland and unmemorable, and whatever defining moments he had (like the admittedly clever songwriting scene) I just found saccharine.

I see the point that he was needed to create tension for the people in the dome... but having Milhouse as a love interest could have done the same. Or, heck, just some focus on Abe, Jackie Bouvier, Patty & Selma, the other kids, Skinner, Krabappel, Moe, Barney, Homer's work mates, Marge's lady friends, and all the other cast of thousands that were allegedly in the film (at least they were in the trailer).

Eh.

[Stretch Dude]

Meh, I'm moderately tolerant of Colin - he and Lisa did have a rather cute moment

Spoiler (hover to show)

when the Simpsons are stuck outside of Springfield and he writes the music to the song he wrote on the dome.

He provided some real emotion for Lisa in the movie, at least - and I'll frankly take her whirling about dizzy with a crush than being humorless, as I feared they might choose to portray her after reading spoilers for the movie last year.

I agree with this. Love him or hate him, he brought out Lisa's "adorable eight-year-old" side, a side we have seen far too little as of late.

[Shockwave]

I'll avoid the SP Movie-related links since I hate that particular movie and just focus on the other things at hand in my evaluation here.

While I didn't really find Colin annoying, I can definitely see why Chris did. And while I don't neccessarily agree directly with the whole outcome making him annoying personally, I do find myself agreeing with every single point she made about him. He really is portrayed as a Gary-Stu.

Now, I suppose, in a sense, that was the point: he was supposed to be this perfect match for Lisa. In a sense that makes him extremely shallow, and despite also agreeing that it was good for Lisa as far as her being put across as the 8 year old girl she rarely has been of late (I assume... haven't watched an episode for a few years now), it does very much put across that Colin is, annoying or not, more of a tool than a character. He's basically there as a catalyst for Lisa rather than being somebody with any realism or depth to them.

After thinking about this a bit more, I find myself agreeing that Colin is an annoying character too... not because he is a character who is annoying directly so much as he really isn't much of a character at all. And I'd personally rather come across a character that annoys me through irritation than come across one who is so purposefully shallow. I actually found a recent trend of the latter-half episodes was an abundance of characters that were more shallow cliche than anybody with depth or realism to be one of the major contributing factors to the show's decline, and while I still don't think Colin is up there with the worst, he's not that much better upon closer inspection.

I suppose Colin could appear again in the future. Again, I don't watch the show now, so this wouldn't really effect me as a "viewer" as such, but if he did (I assume he hasn't yet, right... given the points above and all?) that they could either use him the same as in the movie or actually give him some flaws and depth. Until that comes about, he's kind of shallow for now I guess. And certainly not interesting enough for me to take notice if a press release or something announces an upcoming Colin-themed show.

[A Spy in Mancunia]

Excellent points, Kenneth. In fact, this ties in with something I've only recently figured out (from writing sites and the like): characters who are created just to be "the love interest", rather than to do something on their own, are likely to be uninteresting at best.

While I'm annoyed by Colin, I will of course whole-heartedly endorse his appearance on the show PROVIDED it gives him some flaws and, well, makes him interesting. Maybe he could be an eco-terrorist or something. I know a couple of episodes have had the idea of Lisa somehow getting involved with extreme Green groups, but I'm sure more could be done with it...

[Shockwave]

Just as an aside: that would be a really neat episode actually. When enviromentalists and their activities have appeared in OFF, they've usually been depicted in a mostly positive light and been shown to be correct and up against the mean corporate machine. It'd be nice if they'd actually show the more extreme environmentalists who go too far to the point of being worse than the so-called "bad guys" they're up against. Having Lisa join a group like that for a show would be cool.

[Lisabella]

I definately agree that if he's going to be made a regular character, Colin needs some sort of extra muscle added to his character. 

The problem with the storyline Lisa has with him in the movie is that it feels fairly tacked-on:

Spoiler (hover to show)

"what are we doing with Lisa?  Marge and Homer have their storyline, Bart's with Homer doing this; Maggie's the family's savior - what about Lisa?  Let's do something with the Milhouse crush situation...I know!  A rival!"

There's nothing else TO Colin, except for his activism and love of of music and Lisa's adoration of him, but everything about their situation wasn't heavily-plotted.  IMOHO, I think her entire storyline got the short-shrift due to plotting and timing issues. 

I still think a couple of of the scenes worked, as I described above, and I think he has that potential to be interesting. 

@Kif-

Spoiler (hover to show)

Lisa's already in an extremish eco-activism group, per this year's "Apocolypse Cow".

[A Spy in Mancunia]

Spoiler (hover to show)

"what are we doing with Lisa?  Marge and Homer have their storyline, Bart's with Homer doing this; Maggie's the family's savior - what about Lisa?  Let's do something with the Milhouse crush situation...I know!  A rival!"

Or alternately, they could have just done something with Milhouse.

Also... I don't like Lisa's dizzy silliness after meeting Colin. And lest anyone think anything else, I'm really fine with Lisa acting childlike and swooning over boys. She's done it on the show several times in funny and in-character ways. In the movie, it just felt off. Like so much of the Lisa plot, it seemed contrived. "OK, we've had Lisa acting like an activist, now we've got a cute childish moment to make the old-school fans happy... time to return to the real plot. You may feel a slight jolt."

I wouldn't like it if the people who process my food crammed it with sugar from a turkey baster in order to make me like it more. I don't like it when they do it to films, either.

[Lisabella]

*nods* I think we agree on how artificial the Lisa plot in the movie feels in general. 

I wonder sometimes if Colin was written in the hope of getting a guest voice in on the action.  Otherwise it really would have been more echonomical to just use Milhouse.