Your deeper, inner thoughts about the characters.

Topic: The Matrix...It's like it's from another millennium

Users: @SuzyQ

irc.simpworks.com

[Tyrannus]

Arguably, one of the most important factors to the greatness of the Simpsons was the huge and varied cast, there is/was someone for everyone. Of course a most of the fans preferred Homer and other humor based characters but other fans may prefer characters with...character such as Lisa, I think this forum is the best example of that, in fact many of the gag characters from the early days weren't exactly stereotypical,  nearly everyone could have some depth as it is, subtle or accidental development that isn't confirmed or may not be true but still possible. Or maybe there's just thoughts you have on the character or pairings in question that nobody else seems to think of. That is the main focus of this thread; observations and discussion of characters from the simpsons, futurama is also included although the second option is more difficult.
To kick the thread off I'll share a few (but not all of) my observations.
Jessica Lovejoy:
Am I the only guy who's wondering why the Jess/Bart relationship is so popular. I don't really think it would realisticly work, after all Jess didn't really seem to give a rat's ass about Bart and I'm sure that Bart wouldn't be able to trust her anyway. On the other hand, the idea of Bart and Jessica just being friends/rivals seems quite plausible. As far as the notorious JLJ's personality is concerned I don't really think she's that bad, I like to think of her as just an attention seeker with exceedingly drastic methods of achieving her goal, yet she keeps failing to be noticed by her ignorant parents so the next deed gets even worse.
Sherri, Terri and Janey, related?
Plausability: 3/10
Obviously Sherri and Terri are related dummy. Anyway I know it sounds silly but there is evidence, but maybe it's just a red herring. If you've seen the mook, the chef, the wife and her Homer then try to cast your mind back to it (and if you can't, there are framegrabs on the Simpsons gallery) in the scene when Fat Tony's kid Michael is walking through the school, there's a girl that shares the twins' snub nose, skin and hair colours. Yet her body clothing and legs are like Janey's. I'm certain that the devious duo have a little sister and I'm equally as certain that there not full sisters to Janey, there is a chance that they share a father (after all the twins' dad was an african american in Homer's odyssey, the other man who's sometimes with S&T may just be thier stepfather, I don't think thier parents are ever seen together, maybe there divorced) or maybe she's a cousin of them. While the idea is nearly implauseable, I still do not wish to rule out the possibility.

[A Spy in Mancunia]

This thread has potential. I'm sure it'll see a lot of interesting action.

About Bart's and Jessica's "relationship": I agree with you, I think they're paired rather too often in fanfiction, despite the factors you've mentioned. I suspect a relationship between Bart and Laura would be far more viable (once they reach the age where a three-four year age difference doesn't matter). Jessica is a very interesting character, though.

About Janey and the twins being related: I'm not a geneticist, and the style of the show doesn't really give all that much information, but to me Janey looks completely black and the twins completely white. If there is a relation (which isn't impossible, Springfield being a fairly small town), it is probably more distant than just cousins.

As for the characters as a whole, my view is that even most of the central cast started out as... well, stereotypes, in a neutral sense of the word: the lazy, instinct-driven working man, the hellraising kid etc. The people behind the show weren't really going for depth, which is probably a good thing. Then, as episodes went by, various plots demanded little glimmers of different facets of behaviour, or history, making the characters a little more alive.

Which is probably the best way to do it.

[Lord Kingsley]

Personally, I've always wondered why all the adults seem to think Milhouse is gay.  We all know he carries a torch for Lisa (and other girls).  Granted, he's a little femmy, but that doesn't mean anything.  I mean, if anyone of those kids turns out gay, it'll be Martin.

Not that I have a problem with that, you understand.  I'm just sayin'.

You bring up an interesting point with Jessica being a one-shot character.  I've often thought that the Simpsons writing staff has shot themselves in the foot bringing in so many one timers including, but not limited to: Jessica, Allison, Larry Burns and (my personal favorite) Frank Grimes.  There are literally hundreds of potential episodes in these four examples alone.  I mean, Sideshow Bob is a perfect example of a one time character that had a successful run.  Other examples, like Manjula, are arguable as to their success.  But they should at least try.

[A Spy in Mancunia]

I don't like the "Milhouse is gay" jokes at all. There's Samantha, Lisa, Greta Wolfcastle... if anyone's straight, it's Milhouse. (Not to mention that it's stupid to identify someone's sexual inclination before they've hit puberty, but that's a completely different rant.)

Fully agree on one-timer characters as well. Dropping them from the show (because they were voiced by guest actors) isn't just a waste, it's slightly unrealistic. Take Allison: if "Lisa's Rival" ended with her and Lisa being best friends, we would expect to see them hanging out and doing things now and then, wouldn't we?

Personally, I like Manjula. She's one of the very few characters introduced in S8 or later who has a bit of personality and isn't just a one-joke... joke.

[Tyrannus]

Fully agree on one-timer characters as well. Dropping them from the show (because they were voiced by guest actors) isn't just a waste, it's slightly unrealistic. Take Allison: if "Lisa's Rival" ended with her and Lisa being best friends, we would expect to see them hanging out and doing things now and then, wouldn't we?

Well actually I'm sure Allison had a line in Lard of the dance that wasn't by Winona Ryder (might of been Russi Taylor) and if they could "copy" Allisons voice then there isn't really an excuse for excluding her. It's possible that the dropping of popular one-timers that leads to thier heavy (but not that excessive) use in fanfic, thier fans miss them and try to give them some focus in the next best thing to the show.

 I've often thought that the Simpsons writing staff has shot themselves in the foot bringing in so many one timers including, but not limited to: Jessica, Allison, Larry Burns and (my personal favorite) Frank Grimes.  There are literally hundreds of potential episodes in these four examples alone.

Sorry, but Larry can't be used in the show anymore. His voice actor, Rodney Dangerfield is dead. But Larry Burns was cool though.

Anyway, back to Allison. I've been thinking, although Lisa has been contantly portrayed as ever rightious, usually protesting the destruction of the environment and sticking up for the little guy. But she can be unforgiving, selfish and elitist, especially in season 16.
But Allison on the other hand doesn't seem to be obsessed with environmental protection and doesn't seem to stick up for the little guy (although that may not be definate) yet she's always kind, somewhat social and unquestionably forgiving (even when Lisa and Bart played that mean trick on Allison, Allison didn't even intentionally wrong Lisa).
It's got me wondering who's the all-round better person.

[Lord Kingsley]

Um, yes.  I was aware of Rodney Dangerfield's death.  I was just using him as an example.

As for the Allison v. Lisa debate, well, that debate has been going on for some time.  Personally, I think Lisa has more staying power, but that's just me.

[A Spy in Mancunia]

You're most probably right about the way fans centre on one-timer characters.

I don't know if we can say all that much about Allison's character, given that she's only ever been central in one episode. If she'd been the main character of roughly 25% of the total episode count, it might have been revealed that she's another wussy nature-hugger. Or not.

[Casper]

As for the Allison v. Lisa debate, well, that debate has been going on for some time.  Personally, I think Lisa has more staying power, but that's just me.

Lisa should be replaced with Allison for 15 more seasons, then they'd be equal again.

[Tyrannus]

If she'd been the main character of roughly 25% of the total episode count, it might have been revealed that she's another wussy nature-hugger. Or not.

Then again, if Allison was another wussy nature nut then she would be pretty much a mere copy of Lisa, thus probably would of likely been dropped, I severely doubt that the writers would create a permanent duplicate character anyway. I've always thought of Allison and Lisa a bit like Jack Johnson and John Jackson, similar people who differ on some key issues.

[A Spy in Mancunia]

Agreed, Tyrannus (though Lisa and Allison are hopefully more different than J. J. and, uh, J. J.). Perfectly identical characters are a waste and a sign of laziness on the writer's part. Even Patty and Selma have different interests and traits.

[D.B.]

Lisa should be replaced with Allison for 15 more seasons, then they'd be equal again.

MARGE: Homer, you've brought home the *wrong* one!
HOMER: Book, check... saxomophone, check... hmm *scratches head*

[Meghan]

Lisa should be replaced with Allison for 15 more seasons, then they'd be equal again.

MARGE: Homer, you've brought home the *wrong* one!
HOMER: Book, check... saxomophone, check... hmm *scratches head*

LOL, that is a scene I would like to see in the show.

[Crimson Light Blue Heat]

This is just a plot to get me to post, isn't it?

Regarding Jessica, I agree.  Her M.O. is the attention-starved brat who's learned to balance the need to get noticed with an ability to camouflage her behavior and minimize punishment.  Her interest in boys in general, at least for the duration of the episode, is really just an exercise in seeing what she can get them to do to win her favor.  The only thing that makes the idea of Bart+Jessica as a couple plausible is that there is nearly nothing she can do to make him change his mind; he's still attracted to her after all she did.

After watching the premiere and seeing the character in question, I'm pretty secure saying that it was probably a misanimated Sherri or Terri.  The twins and Janey alike both wear a lot of light purple, and I wouldn't put much stock in their possibly being related.  I'm pretty sure we saw their parents together at Uncle Moe's Family Feedbag.

Allison was voiced in "Lard of the Dance" by Maggie Roswell, IIRC.  One of the greatest mistakes would be to have her as a Lisa clone.  She is similar, but with important differences.  If she had been turned into a major character, I hope they would have actually fleshed her out instead of just making her Lisa the sequel, but we really only know that they are both book-smart and sax prodigies.  There's no evidence to believe that Allison has any interest in riding horses or Eastern religion, for instance.

They are also shaped a great deal by their family environment.  The earthy influence of Homer and Bart means that Lisa's serious side is balanced by an appreciation for, say, Itchy and Scratchy; Allison's only visible family is her college professor father, suggesting a more tightly focused and scholarly upbringing, even at such an early age.  While this suggests a more mature and worldly perspective on Allison's part, it also suggests more of a sheltered life than Lisa, placing her behind Lisa in life experience.  There is a much greater possibility that Lisa has had to learn much of what she knows on her own--though Marge's repressed artistic side almost certainly played a factor--as opposed to Allison, who likely had more family help in her academic and musical pursuits.

This may impact their social views also.  Lisa's been kicked around more than her share and is willing to be outspoken for her causes because she needs to get noticed--and because she's overlooked by pretty much everyone.  Allison just has a lot quieter personality; she's more likely to low-key things just to not get hurt--though she certainly recognized Lisa as a sort of kindred spirit.  Allison definitely has a basic kindness, even if she really isn't sure how to express it beyond immediate relationships, and without question she looks up to and admires Lisa, even if she's too shy to put it into words.  In the end, I think their biggest difference is one of style, and that their basic decency of character is not compromised by one's being fiery and outspoken and the other's being calm and gentle.  They have enough of their lives ahead of them to work things out.

[Tyrannus]

After watching the premiere and seeing the character in question, I'm pretty secure saying that it was probably a misanimated Sherri or Terri.

Possible, as I said, the evidence could be false. But I thought the animators would be past the stage when they're making such obvious mistakes without correcting them.

I'm pretty sure we saw their parents together at Uncle Moe's Family Feedbag.

Nope, just thier mom. The only other adult at the table was the mother of one of the party guests.

Allison was voiced in "Lard of the Dance" by Maggie Roswell, IIRC.

My bad. But still, that doesn't leave an excuse to drop Allison from existance afterwards.

[A Spy in Mancunia]

After watching the premiere and seeing the character in question, I'm pretty secure saying that it was probably a misanimated Sherri or Terri.

Possible, as I said, the evidence could be false. But I thought the animators would be past the stage when they're making such obvious mistakes without correcting them.

Never say never. (EDIT: I know you didn't say never.) Remember Patty and Selma with new nose designs in "Today I Am a Clown"?